EXPOZITII AUDIOFILE din toata lumea:

Analogic, digital, sisteme audio, casti, revelatii si review-uri
User avatar
doru
Posts: 248
Joined: 16 Oct 2008, 14:28

Re: EXPOZITII AUDIOFILE din toata lumea:

Post by doru »

Mai jos, pentru cine are rabdare, se poate citi un comentariu referitor la expozitia de la Munchen, al designer-ului sef de la Harbeth. Mi s-au parut niste aprecieri extrem de interesante, in special asupra boxelor, venite de la un producator de boxe oarecum atipic pentru vremurile de astazi.
La respectiva expozitie de altfel a prezentat si noul model Harbeth, denumit Super HL5 Plus: http://www.harbeth.co.uk/library/pr/May14-Munich.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Having looked around the vast Munich MOC exhibition halls (up from three to four this year) the visitor is immersed in a complex theatre of scientific fact, self deception and willful marketing BS. Does it matter? Not really: it's all harmless stuff, and neither is it going to extend nor shorten ones life by years, nor make one a better, kinder person. It certainly can make you poorer though and take you further from natural sound, as you would hear in the flesh.

We all know that electro-mechanical loudspeakers, (like their brothers, pickup cartridges) will always have personalities to one degree or another: that's a given. Are those sonic personalities dominant now that we've had 100 years or so to perfect the e-m transducer? Yes and no. It would be wrong for me to meander around as an unpaid critic, castigating other designer's hard won efforts, especially as they seem to have found customers for their products, and I assume those customers are delighted, but one or two overall sonic characteristics struck me from a brief non-scientific tour, as they have done before. I'll share them with you for what its worth, merely to keep at the back of your mind for when auditioning any loudspeakers:
1. As a general observation, some of the biggest, most advertised, most reputed brands make the most colored sounds
2. Horn speakers, with very few exceptions, sound like a megaphone, but there are just one or two so well designed that they sound intriguing
3. Many listeners seem to have, to my mind, a strange interchangeable relationship between soundstage size and soundstage coloration (aka sonic quality). More on this later
4. Big speaker generally produce a bigger soundstage
5. The more drive units covering the midrange, the worse the sound
6. An array of small bass/midrange drive units somehow does not produce the 'weight' of a smaller number of larger diameter drivers
7. Some otherwise well integrated and sweet sounding speakers using interesting and unconventional drive units (in the mid/top) are crying out for more 'warmth' in the lower registers, which if they had, would propel them into greatness
8. Loudspeaker brands that successfully market primarily or exclusively to the pro-audio market (but have ambitions to enter the domestic arena) made some of the most colored, unpleasant, pinched, peaky sounds at the show. They were dreadful
9. Most exhibitors play far too loud
10. Most exhibitors do not select music which shows off the best of the speakers they are demoing
11. There is no positive correlation between price and performance beyond a certain ceiling. A Eur. 100,000 speaker may actually be worse - far worse - sounding than a 10,000 speaker. Of those Eur 100,000 speakers, the beautiful cabinets, the things you are paying and arm and a leg for, actually cost only about 3% of the selling price and the drive units even less
12. Visitors are very influenced by speaker size. Huge loudspeakers big enough to fill a normal room may well produce a mediocre and painfully coloured sound (when they reproduce certain musical notes), but the sheer size of the speakers and the logistic effort and cost to bring them to the show can win over the most analytical, educated, rational and cultured mind (see also 3. above)
13. The public, generally, have a very short audio memory and (seemingly) cannot deconstruct what they hear as they hear it. This is a serious problem, because without being able to hop between demonstrations recalling the key elements of previous exposures, those technicolour sonic experiences collapse into a monochrome ghost memory within seconds. After an hour of demo after demo, everything sounds the same. Maybe? I find that the differences actually become amplified in my mind
14. Styling has zero correlation with sound quality
15. Nobody cares where products or piece parts are manufactured in a global interconnected world
16. There is increasing brand consolidation and the pace of this will doubtless increase
17. I rarely heard classical music
18. All the demo rooms (cabins built for the show) boomed and had a range of coloration issues that made decent demos touch-and-go depending upon the music, how many bodies were in the room to soak up sound and especially, how loud the system was played
19. Sales staff must have become progressively deaf as the day passed, because they compensated by increasing the replay volume
20. Audio-only surround sound has been (sadly) almost forgotten, yet a little rear-channel sound can beneficially open-up the sonic experience on classical music if the speaker characteristic are matched all around the listener
21. Home theatre centre channel is far too 'dark' on the movies I heard, with American actors very close to the microphone
22. HT using flat, natural speakers (like the SHL5plus in the REL room) can sound comprehensively enthralling at the right replay level
23. Most/all 'monitor' type speakers are used on stands that are domestically acceptable but technically too short for the intended best sound (tweeter is way below ear level)
24. Continental speaker designers may (this is gut feel, not fact) design with the reference axis (best drive integration) between the bass/mid and tweeter not on axis with the tweeter. This would mandate a very tall stand for the best sound
25. The more exotic the bass/mid driver cosmetics, the harder and more colored the sound
26. 12" (300mm) drivers only work properly in the midrange and bass. They cannot be expected to produce clean, natural sound in the upper midrange, and they do not. That is wholly predictable by science whatever twaddle the marketing boys come up with
27. The Chinese are making copies of old-style BBC LS series monitors which are (superficially) cosmetically remarkably close to the original 70s/80s models and very inexpensive, devaluing the concept of the BBC licence, which is, anyway, legitimately available to anyone who applies and pays the small fee, irrespective of experience or geographical location
28. There were no new, interesting, cone materials likely to outperform existing materials, and two exhibitors who displayed their so-called new materials last year have disappeared (as I predicted) because we reviewed and dismissed those candidates over twenty years ago
29. As a general comment, whilst many speakers produced bass, very few produced an engaging warmth in the lower registers. Cellos sounded far too much like violas
30. Several non-Harbeth owners commented that their existing speakers just did not integrate properly unless they were seated far from them, too far for convenience. A Harbeth trademark is that regardless of whether you use your Harbeths like headphones (try it - very addictive: huge soundstage!) or in the far field, the sound quality does not change. That is really a defining characteristic of the way we design
31. Visitors who are impressed by large speakers forget that there is no certainty that such will work harmonious in the domestic room
32. It would be unwise to use a brief opportunity to audition a loudspeaker at a trade show under unfamiliar conditions as a substitute for a proper listen at a dealers or at home
33. The contribution of the electronics, cables, stands, room and music in any demo cannot be mentally separated, so drawing conclusions about the speakers alone is risky. Despite this, it is easy to hear visitors comment, upon entering a demo room that the reason the sound is good/bad/ugly is inextricably linked to one element of the equipment chain on demo, typically the cables or mains filter
34. Most contemporary loudspeakers have too much high frequency energy
35. An exhibitor may, with justification, modify his equipment to provide a best possible sound under the far from ideal conditions of a trade show
36. The leakage of sound from competing exhibitors stimulates the fight or flight response: I find that just being in that noisy environment is extremely tiring because of the heightened awareness. I live and work in almost complete silence


I'll add to that list if I think of anything.
Alan A. Shaw
Designer, owner
Harbeth Audio UK
Most people use their stereos to listen to music. Audiophiles use music to listen to their stereos.

User avatar
momolo
Moderator
Posts: 14344
Joined: 02 Oct 2008, 10:11
Location: Bucuresti

Re: EXPOZITII AUDIOFILE din toata lumea:

Post by momolo »

Mi se par foarte, foarte interesante aceste aprecieri dar si foarte adevarate, cand am citit parca am retrait concluzii si experiente personale. Multe afirmatii mi se par rupte din realitate.
Dar avand in vedere si ce boxe (faine) realizeaza omul asta, imi explic pozitia lui care mi se pare de mult bun simt intr-o epoca din ce in ce mai lipsita de bun simt.
"Tinereţea este o noţiune, biologia un adevăr. Ele împreună dau dimensiunea existenţei"(Geo Bogza)

User avatar
sorin_denver
Posts: 70
Joined: 29 Oct 2008, 08:51
Location: Constanta

Re: EXPOZITII AUDIOFILE din toata lumea:

Post by sorin_denver »

Munchen http://www.hificlube.net/pt/artigos/eve ... art-1.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
momolo
Moderator
Posts: 14344
Joined: 02 Oct 2008, 10:11
Location: Bucuresti

Re: EXPOZITII AUDIOFILE din toata lumea:

Post by momolo »

T.H.E. Show (Newport Beach) 2014 Coverage:

http://www.ultrahighendreview.com/t-h-e ... -coverage/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Tinereţea este o noţiune, biologia un adevăr. Ele împreună dau dimensiunea existenţei"(Geo Bogza)

User avatar
momolo
Moderator
Posts: 14344
Joined: 02 Oct 2008, 10:11
Location: Bucuresti

Re: EXPOZITII AUDIOFILE din toata lumea:

Post by momolo »

Milano Gran Galà dell’Alta Fedeltà 2014
>>Saturday 27 and Sunday 28, returns a Milano the new appointment of "Gran Galà dell’Alta Fedeltà" at Hotel NH Fiera Milano Rho, organized by Giulio Cesare Ricci.<<

http://www.grangaladellaltafedelta.com/ ... Itemid=135" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PS - poate reuseste sa mearga SOLO si ne povesteste.
"Tinereţea este o noţiune, biologia un adevăr. Ele împreună dau dimensiunea existenţei"(Geo Bogza)

User avatar
SOLO
Moderator
Posts: 1771
Joined: 25 Sep 2008, 22:42
Location: Milan

Re: EXPOZITII AUDIOFILE din toata lumea:

Post by SOLO »

Am in plan sa ajung si pe-acolo.
Every foot from the wall adds 1000$ to the sound
*Doneaza pentru libertatea si sustenabilitatea forumului

User avatar
SOLO
Moderator
Posts: 1771
Joined: 25 Sep 2008, 22:42
Location: Milan

Re: EXPOZITII AUDIOFILE din toata lumea:

Post by SOLO »

Am fost la eveniment, practic 7-8 sali cu sisteme scumpe. Cea mai buna a fost sala MBL. In ultima poza avem un sistem scump care suna prost.

Image

Image

Image
Every foot from the wall adds 1000$ to the sound
*Doneaza pentru libertatea si sustenabilitatea forumului

User avatar
momolo
Moderator
Posts: 14344
Joined: 02 Oct 2008, 10:11
Location: Bucuresti

Re: EXPOZITII AUDIOFILE din toata lumea:

Post by momolo »

Ce sisteme si boxe sunt cele din foto? (recunosc numai doua).
"Tinereţea este o noţiune, biologia un adevăr. Ele împreună dau dimensiunea existenţei"(Geo Bogza)

User avatar
SOLO
Moderator
Posts: 1771
Joined: 25 Sep 2008, 22:42
Location: Milan

Re: EXPOZITII AUDIOFILE din toata lumea:

Post by SOLO »

Poza 1 : boxe TAD + amplificare VAC . Echilibrat, viu, detaliat.. nu a sunat rau.
Poza 2 : Nu mai tin bine minte ( boxele exterioare aveau potential dar erau prea departate una de alta )
Poza 3 : Sonus Faber + Mcintosh = nasol tare dupa opinia mea, in plus nu am gasit o persoana caruia sa-i placa cat de putin. sunet urlat, slabit.. poate si din vina amenajarii.
Every foot from the wall adds 1000$ to the sound
*Doneaza pentru libertatea si sustenabilitatea forumului

User avatar
hersorin
Posts: 762
Joined: 12 Oct 2008, 18:35
Location: Bruxelles

Re: EXPOZITII AUDIOFILE din toata lumea:

Post by hersorin »

Relax de simbata cu ceva sisteme audio http://hersorin.sunphoto.ro/Bruxelles2014HighEnd" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
RME 9632 Bel Canto 3.5 Unico 200 Pioneer S1EX Jena Labs Furutech

User avatar
hersorin
Posts: 762
Joined: 12 Oct 2008, 18:35
Location: Bruxelles

Re: EXPOZITII AUDIOFILE din toata lumea:

Post by hersorin »

SOLO wrote:Poza 1 : boxe TAD + amplificare VAC . Echilibrat, viu, detaliat.. nu a sunat rau.
Nu sunt boxe TAD acolo , cred ca ai vrut sa scrii Tidal.
RME 9632 Bel Canto 3.5 Unico 200 Pioneer S1EX Jena Labs Furutech

User avatar
SOLO
Moderator
Posts: 1771
Joined: 25 Sep 2008, 22:42
Location: Milan

Re: EXPOZITII AUDIOFILE din toata lumea:

Post by SOLO »

hersorin wrote:
SOLO wrote:Poza 1 : boxe TAD + amplificare VAC . Echilibrat, viu, detaliat.. nu a sunat rau.
Nu sunt boxe TAD acolo , cred ca ai vrut sa scrii Tidal.
Corect, sorry.
Every foot from the wall adds 1000$ to the sound
*Doneaza pentru libertatea si sustenabilitatea forumului

User avatar
hersorin
Posts: 762
Joined: 12 Oct 2008, 18:35
Location: Bruxelles

Re: EXPOZITII AUDIOFILE din toata lumea:

Post by hersorin »

Miine am o zi grea , am ceva marfa de ascultat https://www.facebook.com/nmhighendinnovation" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
dupa care trebuie sa ascult si ultima pereche de boxe care pot face concurenta boxelor mele . Poate nu o sa imi placa dar nu prea cred .
RME 9632 Bel Canto 3.5 Unico 200 Pioneer S1EX Jena Labs Furutech

User avatar
brighty
Posts: 899
Joined: 06 Nov 2008, 19:05
Location: Bucuresti

Re: EXPOZITII AUDIOFILE din toata lumea:

Post by brighty »

Tocmai a debutat CES 2015, desfasurat ca de obicei in Las Vegas, si SONY ne prezinta un nou model de walkman (NW-ZX2), destinat audiofililor, care reda o serie de formate lossless, are ecran touch, vine intr-un design clasic inconfundabil, doar ca... din pacate, costa o mica avere: vreo 1200 $! :shock:

http://www.theverge.com/2015/1/5/749314 ... 2-ces-2015" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
LEKTOR
Posts: 1774
Joined: 05 Oct 2008, 16:08
Location: Audiofilsburg

Re: EXPOZITII AUDIOFILE din toata lumea:

Post by LEKTOR »

... living a vi(ntage)king analog lifestyle in a digital world ...

Post Reply